No Pain, No Shame

Jonathan Katz

Intro from Jay Allison: A homemade commentary by Jonathan Katz.

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No Pain, No Shame a.k.a. Smiling Disease

Produced by Jonathan Katz a.k.a. Dr. Katz, Professional Therapist
February 2001

Jonathan Katz was the kid at the family party who stuck the microphone in your face. He has the tapes to prove it.

The MP3 file he emailed us, though, is just him. A quiet monologue he made last week at home and sent us after he dropped by Transom.org the first time. “I recorded this piece on the 3rd floor of my house directly to the hard drive of my computer in Cool Edit Pro. The people who make ProTools described Cool Edit Pro as ‘cute’. I hate them.”

The piece falls somewhere between Jonathan and his act, or, as he said, “…somewhere between public radio and comedy.”

A photo from Jonathan's scrapbook
A photo from Jonathan’s scrapbook

A little program advisory… for those with delicate sensibilities, there’s one word in the piece which you might not use in conversation with the Queen. It’s employed as an epithet, out of context from its sexual origins. It is also very funny. I guess I should just tell you. We’ll remove the vowel, because by common consent, the vowels are the dirty parts. So… this is the time to turn away. The word is: “PR*CK”. Now, go on about your business.

Oh, regarding those tapes he made as a kid, Jonathan is working with them to make a piece for the Lost & Found Sound series to air on This American Life pretty soon. We’ll keep you posted.

One last thing: Though his bio may not mention it, I’d like to note that Jonathan Katz was New York State Ping Pong champion in 1964. He could kick your ass.

Jonathan Katz

About
Jonathan Katz

Jonathan Katz, an author, producer, actor, comedian and musician, is one of the entertainment industry's most original and versatile creative personalities. He co-created and starred in the hit pop culture animated series "Dr. Katz: Professional Therapist," which aired on Comedy Central for six seasons, a show that has been credited with branding that network as the home for sophisticated, smartly stupid humor. For his work on the series Katz received Comedy Central's first-ever Emmy Award (for Outstanding Primetime Voiceover Performance), the prestigious Peabody Award for Excellence in Broadcasting, and two Cable Ace Awards. As an actor, Jonathan has been praised for his roles in such recent movies as "Daddy Day Care" with Eddie Murphy ("excruciatingly funny") as well as in the David Mamet films "State and Main," "Things Change" and "The Spanish Prisoner," and opposite Janeane Garofalo in the 2002 release "The Independent." He also co-wrote the story for Mamet's critically acclaimed "House of Games." For the past several years, he has focused on creating innovative programming across different media platforms.  He created and produced "Raising Dad" for the WB, and more recently a television pilot, "Say Uncle" starring Lisa Kudrow and Katz, for Disney and Fox.  Jonathan is a regular contributor to public radio's "The Next Big Thing" and can be heard on the web at transom.org. His additional television credits include his own HBO special, a recurring role on CBS' "Ink," and an appearance as himself in the last season of HBO's "The Larry Sanders Show." Katz has made numerous guest appearances on "The Late Show with David Letterman," "The Tonight Show," "Late Night with Conan O'Brien" and "Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher," for which he also served as creative consultant. Jonathan's first book To Do Lists of the Dead was published in 2000 by Andrews McMeel, and he is currently working on his new book, tentatively titled Humility:  What Is It and Where Can I Get Some? Originally a musician and songwriter, Katz fronted a rhythm and blues group called "Katz and Jammers" before serving as the musical director for Robin Williams' 1979 stand-up tour.  In 1981 he started working solo, doing a cabaret act that was mostly musical, and in between songs he began to lay the groundwork for his stand-up act. A native New Yorker, Jonathan moved to Boston twenty years ago and currently resides in Newton, Massachusetts with his wife and two daughters. In 1997 Jonathan was diagnosed with MS.  A few weeks later he found out what those two letters represent (multiple sclerosis). For the last few years he has talked publicly about how this illness has impacted his life, and finds sharing his situation with others very enriching.  "Life goes on with the disease.  I use comedy to cope.  In fact I teach a course called ‘Coping with Comedians who use Comedy to Cope.'"

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  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    No Pain, No Shame

    Author : jay allison
    Date : 02-15-2001 on 14:22

    A place to talk about Jonathan Katz’s piece, and about public radio and comedy and the territory in between.

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : viki
    Date : 02-18-2001 on 22:30

    After listening the 2nd time I went back to read Jonathan’s bio and laughed. My listening experience felt like watching an intense lightning ping pong game……
    The hits were fast and often masterful – it was hard to tell which side was which while Jonathan seemed to simultaneously reveal and disguise. An emotional volley of me wanting to throttle him and then applauding him. How the hell did this happen so fast?

    The ending had perfect timing, just a long enough beat for me to be hit over the head with reality.

    Comedy is a profound tool – and would be a refreshing one in the status quo of public radio that takes itself so seriously. n’est ce pas?

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : carol
    Date : 02-19-2001 on 15:39

    So.
    There’s this guy who plays a therapist on tv. He loses the gig. This sends him to a therapist. Who decides that she, too, has seen enough of his episodes.

    You may know people who love monkeys. Who think monkeys are funny. Who think everything that monkeys do is insanely hilarious.

    I believe this happens because of the fact that monkeys are almost people. Almost, but not quite.

    I personally react this way to therapists, who seem to be almost people, but are not quite. Especially the Freudians. And so I am reduced to helpless, hooting, unlady-like laughter by therapists and therapist humor.

    Stuff like this piece.

    I wish it had a better title, though. "Paying to Get In", perhaps?

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : bryn
    Date : 02-20-2001 on 08:23

    "Between public radio and comedy" is appropriate. The piece is paced in a way very different from what is normally heard on the radio, which sounds very
    fresh and interesting.
    I especially like the way he just runs by certain lines that would be given much more emphasis by a more standard public radio reading.
    This is an interesting technique, and I think it’s what made me listen to the piece several times in a row. But it also made it substantially more challenging, and I there were a couple words and phrases that I missed the first time around which changed the meaning of the piece a bit. So I’m not sure if this piece would work as well over the radio, where you hear it once and there’s no second chance.

    The "narration" discussion elsewhere made me wonder what this piece would sound like with tape, say of Jonathan talking to his therapist. But I don’t know if the magic of the monologue would still be there.

    Thanks for the show, Johnathan.

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : A Knight
    Date : 02-20-2001 on 10:44

    I loved it, but I’m a biased Dr. Katz fan. For public radio, this may have been better off as an interview. There’s something about people who interview others being interviewed themselves… You get a better feel of who that person really is in those few minutes than you’ve seen in all of the hours where they were asking the questions. Like Andy Richter on TAL (episode 80, running with antelope) or Conan on Leno. Plus, with the interview the jokes are punctuated a little harder.

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : Brent
    Date : 02-20-2001 on 12:06

    I love this piece. I’ve listened to it three times, and it really does keep getting funnier.
    Although, I do miss that great give and take between Katz and his costars, especially Ben and Laura.

    I have this strange sensation having listened a few times, that I actually know less about Jonathan Katz now than I did before I listened to his piece. He’s so much more mysterious to me now than he was. Sure he’s funny and very smart, but what’s all that darkness down below? At least, on Dr. Katz you got the illusion of understanding his family life as a backdrop to the punchlines, now I feel like I know nothing at all.

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

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    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : larry
    Date : 02-20-2001 on 16:43

    So maybe if I kept re-listening, like Brent did, this piece would sound funnier to me; but on the one listen, it didn’t strike me as funny, or as a radio piece.
    The pacing and zig-zag structure sounded like stand-up comedy, only delivered in a sort of intimate tone. The intimacy is an illusion. It doesn’t actually reveal anything, it’s just comedic patter. For me (and I don’t Katz’ work) the trouble is really the length; the piece is too short. It seemed like he wanted to do something new, to go someplace he hadn’t been, and he seemed like he was going to have to get their by a long, indirect route with lots of side trips (this is therapy, isn’t it?). But then suddenly he called it piece and turned the tape off. I wanted him to go on and on and on….. So this piece seems like a fragment of a longer work, I hope it is…..

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

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    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : fili
    Date : 02-21-2001 on 04:57

    like this guy brent.. i get a glimpse of the dark side of dr./jonathan katz. que lastima. dona carmen i

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

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    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : beedge
    Date : 02-23-2001 on 08:02

    j.katz is one of the funniest men in america.
    and so in hearing this piece i was most impressed in learning
    that comedycentral cancelled the best show on tv:
    dr. katz, professional therapist
    comedycentral.com will not go unscathed for this rashness
    (can you say "denial-of-service attack", how about "virus").

    on to the piece: i thought it was pretty funny.
    it included some detritus from katz standups.
    what it lacked, for radio, to be other than a recording of a standup,
    was a story — and especially, an end.

    i still think it’s better than 95% of the commentators i hear on npr.
    i am reminded of my days working for the nipper,
    i would spend many hours in the npr library searching their computer
    for pieces by jay allison, larry massett, kitchen sisters, scott carrier.

    i ran across other gems too: commentaries by jean shepherd
    and gahan wilson. elegantly crafted 3 minute stories,
    that were funny and profound.
    these folk were gone after only a few commentaries.
    but it showed what-could-be, and occasionally has-been since,
    in commentaries by lynda barry, ken nordine, david sedaris,
    and kevin kling (the latter being the only one still on npr).

    i believe katz could be a great comedic commentator.
    but, bottom line: npr pays so little for pieces,
    that i’m not sure it’d be worth his time to do it?

    still, i’d love to hear the katz wit/pov outside a standup
    and inside a story form.

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : scarrier
    Date : 02-23-2001 on 08:10

    The tv show may have been funny (I never saw it) but this audio piece isn’t. I think Larry and Barrett are right in that it needs some work.

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

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    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : helen
    Date : 02-23-2001 on 11:05

    I have several points to make:
    1.I agree with bryn that on real radio, without the benefit of multiple playbacks, you might miss some of the finer points of Katz’ humour, but I still found loads to laugh at, the playbacks just made it richer.

    2.The smiling disease is a phenomenon that transgresses almost every boundary: age, nationality etc. and so is universally funny (with the odd exception see above!).
    and

    3. I dont feel the need for a backdrop, for more info; Katz can just poke fun at himself, its the human condition, I dont care if there are dark secrets that need to be explored. it’s just funny stuff, refreshingly self-depreciating and unlike a lot of so called humour on Public Radio it makes you (me) laugh

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : carol
    Date : 02-23-2001 on 13:43

    Oh dear. Consensus wisdom is that 95 percent of NPR commentators do not merit airtime? I feel honor-bound, as one of the salvageable 5 percent, to explain to those of you Listening In At Home about the collaborative nature of the audio essay form.
    I write something. I submit it to my producers, who look the script over. The first draft is uniformly awful. They are, however, kind people. While it is certain that they read it aloud to each other, laughing at my jejune, witless prose until coffee bubbles out of their noses, they no not ever – ever – email me back with the bad news that my latest piece stinks. They are unfailingly alert to any hidden merit, and suggest changes which might save the script from certain death.

    So I fix the thing. And resend. About a million times. Until I get it right.

    Then these producers submit it to other producers, further up the line, who – for all I know – may be posting the worst of my work in the staff lunch room next to a couple of Zippy cartoons and some digitally generated indecent photographs of the current President.

    These guys also get to make other helpful suggestions, which might improve the piece.

    They also have the option to simply pass on the thing. For any number of perfectly legitimate reasons having nothing to do with me. Sometimes they have just taken a piece which is similar. In any event, they do not owe me an explanation, and I don’t expect one.

    But on those happy occasions when a script is accepted, I go into the studio to record the thing. And this is where the skill and genius of my producers routinely saves my bacon:

    I step up to the mike and read the thing through. I manage to miss every mark, and come out sounding like my thorazine levels need adjusting. They say to me, very patiently, "Let’s do it once more, with a little more energy."

    So I read it with an endearing manic quality, which is not what they had hoped for, and in additon I manage to get tangled on some of the big words while missing some of the little ones altogether.

    I read it a few more times. It just gets worse and worse.

    Finally, they take pity on me. Or they decide that life as we know it is too short, and perfection is a fool’s goal. They send me home.

    Then the miracle happens: they take this sorry mess of tape and PRODUCE the piece. They cut and bend and add the eloquent pauses which I forgot to put in when I was actually reading the script. They remove my gibbering and false steps. They make me sound like Victoria De Los Angeles in mid-career.

    In short – they perform sonic miracles.

    Keep all this in mind when you listen to new pieces on the Transom site. Most of them will be works in progress, from writers and sound artists who are working alone, without benefit – until now – of the kind of high-level collaboration which makes the most mediocre among us sound good.

    I should know.

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : jay
    Date : 02-23-2001 on 14:33

    Carol forgets to mention that often her writing is perfect in the first draft and read perfectly on the first take. And that is when the Editor/Producer must perform his most challenging task: leave it alone.

    Everyone finds different things funny. Benny Hill, for example, has a large following…how about that for a mystery? I find Jonathan Katz inherently hysterical, and, for me, the ending of this piece is the best part. It’s the flip-flop between commentary/stand-up/tiny revelation/joke that I like. I want him to be serious for a second, but I want another joke. He seems to want to get serious for a second, but then he wants to tell another joke. We’re in it together.

    But Carol is right. Transom.org isn’t just a performance space and it’s a waste to just judge things here by whether they’re perfect or not. It’s not thumbs-up-thumbs-down. It’s supposed to be a place where people can take chances, where accomplished performers like Jonathan can take a whack at public radio from their third floor computer doing his own editing, or where kids can download ProTools and see if they can make something that’s not too bad.

    Transom is a PROCESS site, not just product, and all the works here are in process, to one degree or another, as are the producers, all of us.

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : helen
    Date : 02-24-2001 on 10:43

    jay (02-23-2001 14:33):
    Everyone finds different things funny. Benny Hill, for example, has a large following…how about that for a mystery?

    Point taken re. benny hill; it is frighteningly popular.

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : LAnoose
    Date : 02-25-2001 on 21:02

    Jonathan’s piece put me in hysterics–so much so that some men in white coats appeared at my door and escorted me into the back of a van and took me to this lovely padded cell from which I’m now writing. It has a computer (well, an iMac) and DSL and they tell me I’ll soon have the pleasure of visiting with a therapist of my own. So, I just want to say thank you to "Dr." Katz for making all this possible.

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : mckibben
    Date : 02-26-2001 on 18:27

    I’ve always found tags to be the very hardest parts of pieces to write–when I was doing Talk of the Town stories, I’d often just end them dead. Talk to me about endings–about how to avoid summing up, or just playing off the lead. That’s what intrigued me about this piece

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : Nannette
    Date : 03-01-2001 on 22:49

    One day, while helping my one-year-old practice climbing stairs, I pretended her stuffed animal was struggling with the steps too ("uh-oh!…") My daughter became tearful with laughter. I love remembering this. She could laugh because she knew that I knew how scary it was and that she’d survive it…Whew!
    So I figured we laugh at what we dread, what we’re scared about, especially failure and humiliation. Watching humor performed publicly works best because we can practice humility when we laugh. By laughing, we publicly admit we recognize ourselves in some sad sack’s failure and survive it. Whew!

    In a 50s kind of way, Before turning on the telly, is the Benny Hill fan vaguely thinking, "Reality is locked up. Oh blimey, you mean to tell me ths is it? How am I going to survive the bland conformity of it all? The best I can strive for is the same job every day of my life, the same partner, if I’m lucky. If I go along with it, I shall die of boredom; if I veer off, I’ll lose everything. Well that Benny Hill fellow is my hero, he can grab a ny skirt, etc. Those women think they can run us, but I could show them! Whew!
    Female fan variation: Well, I don’t mind him oggling every woman, because he looks a baffoon doing it. Whew!

    then came all the social revolutions, more choice, and drugs. The Monty Python fan is walking in a daze, thinking, "you mean reality is relative? chemically based? I could really ‘lose it’ in absurdity! and it’s hilarious when the Python team does. Whew!

    Now Jonathan Katz and his fans are thinking, "you mean, I make my reality by how I talk to people? Now this is Really Scary. I could really blow it"

    I thought it was interesting, compelling, but not hilarious. Perhaps because it didn’t break any tabus for me. Maybe if I heard it in an audience, and had one more beat between jokes, I would laugh. But Jonathan is sitting inthe little room alone, talking about the wall being built and taken down. I know that room, I am glad I could hear about it and I feel a connection, but I’d laugh out loud only if he took a bigger risk and failed and rose again.

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : Nannette
    Date : 03-01-2001 on 23:00

    carol (02-23-2001 13:43):
    I feel honor-bound, , to explain to those of you Listening In At Home about the collaborative nature of the audio essay form.

    And Carol (Wasserman, I presume) what a generous, helpful posting that was. Merci.

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

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    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : pepe
    Date : 03-07-2001 on 18:55

    this is a "love letter"to transom.org from jonathan katz. perhaps it’s because i’m willing to put in the hours reading what people think about what i said that my feelings for transom are so strong. i thought it might be fun to create a dialouge with text questions coming from "listeners" and audio responses coming from me. i’ll try not to provide too many straight answers.

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

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    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : Nannette
    Date : 03-08-2001 on 00:18

    Well, this is a treat! [I just got some nasty work done and was looking for a little reward visit; voila!]
    I wanted to follow up by saying I felt more amused and delighted when I heard your voice on a radio promo last week. I guess the more one gets to know you – or any ‘character’- the easier it is to understand what’s funny and sad.

    How did you choose the name Pepe?
    do you find you think in terms of material all the time? does this help or hurt your sanity? do you just syphon off and collect material for later, freeing up gray matter? or do you wallow, edit and wallow… or something(s) else…?

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : jay
    Date : 03-08-2001 on 09:13

    Why ping pong? Did you ever play against your father? Do you remember the first time you beat him?
    Did you have a lot of girlfriends? None?

    Do you prefer a male or female therapist?

    Why do you think you like tape recording and videotaping your family? It’s not a distancing technique or anything screwed-up like that, is it?

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : carol
    Date : 03-08-2001 on 10:12

    Do you have any aversions to certain foods? Or rituals connected with eating, particularly in private?
    Have you been able to identify those things which trigger your headaches?

    What is your favorite prescription drug?

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    the sqiuiggler knows best…

    Author : beedge
    Date : 03-08-2001 on 18:30

    i hope pepe is really gonna check in
    and answer some katzian queries for us,
    cuz i’ve always wondered a coupla obvious ones:
    your dr.katz schticks mit famous comic couchsitters:
    were they mostly scripted or mostly improved?
    if improved, did you pre-plan a bit of where they were to go
    or just find out once tape rolled?
    and did you record a lot more improv than you used,
    then edit to save the best,
    or did most of what you taped make it to squigglevission?

    and one more question:
    i’m in love w/ laura; how do i tell my wife?

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Ask Questions

    Author : jay
    Date : 03-09-2001 on 11:01

    I just heard from Jonathan. As I understand it, he’s in LA creating a TV show for the WB Network, a show that he’s technically too old to watch.

    He says: "i’m in deepest hollywood trying not to become a big phoney. oh no, i’m too late."

    Anyway, he’s serious about this question thing. He has a minidisc recorder in his hotel room and he’ll answer questions posted here and mail the disc this weekend.

    Hurry. Seek answers.

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

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    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : A Knight
    Date : 03-09-2001 on 12:51

    Mr. Katz,
    Why would a celeb. of your magnitude submit a piece to Transom? Was it a lark? Was it a show of support? Are you really a celeb. of magnitude? What should I wear to the bar tonight? And just where am I going with this? Didn’t I see a camio appearance by you in a sitcom or two?

    – Andy television rots your braim

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : jay
    Date : 03-11-2001 on 16:44

    Jonathan just emailed me to say that it’s too lonely in his LA hotel room talking into a minidisc while he looks at questions on the computer screen. He wants to wait until he gets home. He says, "i’m sorry. i still prefer transom to tv."
    See me as the Stage Manager fumbling through the curtain to stand before you, blinking into the lights, not knowing what to do with my hands, and blurting out that the Star is throwing up in her dressing room.

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : A Knight
    Date : 03-15-2001 on 09:53

    jay (03-11-2001 16:44):
    See me as the Stage Manager fumbling through the curtain to stand before you, blinking into the lights, not knowing what to do with my hands, and blurting out that the Star is throwing up in her dressing room.

    I’ve never seen you any other way, my friend, never…

  • REPOST

    3.26.01

    Reply
    Re:No Pain, No Shame

    Author : jay
    Date : 03-22-2001 on 21:37

    PROMOTIONAL ANNOUNCMENT:
    This week (3/23/01) on THIS AMERICAN LIFE…. "Return to Childhood", stories of people returning to their childhood and teenage years.

    Comedian and writer Jonathan Katz, best known for
    his animated TV series, "Dr. Katz", the first cartoon
    psychiatrist, returns to his childhood constantly. On tape.

    He’s been tape recording his life since his father stole the
    Wollensack from the Park Ave Synagogue in l959. When
    Jonathan isn’t taping the present moment for his enjoyment, he’s listening to tapes he’s made of his past. In this story Jonathan visits his childhood homes with his sister Phyllis, for the first time in decades, taping as usual. Afterward, he talks to Ira Glass about the experience.

    "Once More, With Feeling" is a collaboration between LOST & FOUND SOUND and THIS AMERICAN LIFE.

    Produced by Jonathan Goldstein with help from Valerie Velardi, Jay Allison and Davia Nelson.
    http://www.thislife.org

  • Jayne Jacobs

    7.15.01

    Reply
    Standup?

    I first saw Jonathan Katz on stage, and he was a genius by-the-way. I can’t find any information about him other than the brilliant Dr. Katz show. I have recommended him to many for a good show, if they can find hime. He used to perform from time to time at the Comedy Stop in Atlantic City back in the days when Ray Romano was there and I thought they were the two best of all the comedians that ever worked there.

    Does anyone have information about him that is current?

  • Jay Allison

    7.15.01

    Reply
    Jonathan

    Maybe he’s still checking in, I’m not sure. I know he’s in LA writing his new show for the WB Network which was picked up for a season. I forget the name of it, but I’ll try to find out.

  • Jesse

    11.17.01

    Reply
    Looking for contact info…

    Anyone have contact info for Katz or his "people"… have a show we’d love to have him on, but can’t find a number…

    My email’s splangy@splangy.com

    Jesse Thorn

  • Char

    3.10.05

    Reply
    I wholeheartedly agree

    Jonathan holds great hope for me, for I am both a therapist and a patient and he gets us going if we are honest with ourselves.

  • Ana

    8.23.05

    Reply
    Dr. Katz

    Hi, I`m Ana and I live in Argentina. I want to ask if you know any way to get to the chapters of.."Dr. Katz Professional Therapist" in spanish by internet or any other sources, thank you very much
    See you later..
    Ana

    ana_sarcevic@hotmail.com

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